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I'd have to say they use tables for raw data speed, since they are serving up so much bandwidth every day. ; Bandwidth ain't free. Also, you can do a lot more in CSS. Let the visitors know what browser and screen resolution provides the best user experience so they can adjust their settings. Your tables may seem just right to one user, too small to another, or too large based on the screen resolution of the person visiting your website. It's a matter of combining the strict structure of html with he loose nature of css. I don't think it is any kind of mistake, or any other stupid problem. Arngren - Design in chaos and mess for the missing of grid. Tables are mainly bad for search engine reasons (there's also the issue of them messing up the DOM a bit, but that's not too bad). One of the main reason is that divs load faster than tables. Similar to search engines, most screen readers read web pages in the order that they display in the HTML, and tables can be very hard for screen readers to parse.The content in a table layout, while linear, doesn't always make sense when read … Also, notice that they use inline styles in the page header to reduce the number of HTTP requests to help speed up page load time. Okay - there's three separate things wrapped up in that question: 1) What are grids? Is this true? But if you have a little bit of knowledge, you can bring back the table in a way that is accessible to all your users. I used tables to position my image elements so when a user clicked on the image, a span tag would be created for the td element and added. We recommend to always clean your HTML * Bad HTML. This tutorial will show you how to use the various table tags to define these elements and how to format … I think some of the same arguments apply here. In a nutshell, email designers have to take a page out of the web design handbook…circa the late 1990s. With this website we want to teach you the best web design practices to avoid Bad HTML. If you haven’t looked at our Introduction to HTML Tables then head over there and then come back!. Back in the 90's before CSS it was quite difficult to manage a website, because all visual styles and layout were controlled using attributes applied directly to each HTML tag. Tables are horrible for screen readers. Tables are usually more bytes of markup. (Longer to download) Tables lock you into the current design and make redesigns MUCH harder than semantic HTML+CSS. Use HTML tables to layout the sections of the site (header, footer, sidebar etc.). Tabular data is tricky to display on mobiles since the page will either be zoomed in to read text, meaning tables go off the side of the page and the user has to scroll backwards and forwards to read the table, or the page will be zoomed out, usually meaning that the table is too small to be able to read. Which web platform is reccomended to create a website? I've found using a table for the basic layout and then using divs to fill it in to be the best approach. In my opinion, there are some cases, like those mentioned above, where it is vitaly important to have the same look everywhere, than it is OK to use tables. when - why html tables are bad . You’ll be able to create these pages using CSS but it’s going to require a litany of additional properties. There was no way to repeat commonly used styles. Does it make sense to use the

tag on a “modern” website? The problem with using tables: mixes presentational data in with your content. ; Bandwidth ain't free. Email Address. Possible Duplicate: Google doesn't have to care about ranking high in search engines... ;). They're a useful practice that designers sometimes use. Tables usually prevent incremental rendering. If you have a 3-column layout, for example, don't use an HTML table for that. Should I learn HTML, CSS and JavaScript or just learn Wordpress ? Given how poorly so many web sites work on phones, I'm more concerned about mobile compatibility than with the concerns of CSS evangelicals. Tables are divided into rows using the tag. Use a table. Tables render consistently on nearly every browser, including smartphones (which is a big concern for Twitter especially). Page load time is king for these guys, and bandwidth usage is extreme. You can manage the contents of an entire website with a single CSS file. If you do not specify a padding, the table cells will be displayed without padding. Similar to search engines, most screen readers read web pages in the order that they display in the HTML, and tables can be very hard for screen readers to parse.The content in a table layout, while linear, doesn't always make … To show why I simply referred to an older post where I point out why I think html tables are bad for layout. If a table would be a more efficient way of laying out a particular design - I use it. Since tables worked everywhere, they were the de facto standard. Posts. Does it make sense to use the
tag on a “modern” website? All the elements together make the site an incomprehensible mess. Tables Are Not Accessible . Table Rowspan And Colspan In HTML Explained (With Examples) Disclosure: Your support helps keep the site running! The bad news for us is that all of those rendering engines support different HTML tags and CSS properties. HTML tables are meant to display tabular data. We have collected the most common HTML markup crimes that have to be avoided. In the good old days you had no option but to use tables if you wanted to give an impressive presentation on your website. To ensure that emails display properly across most email clients, we have to use HTML tables to create the structure of an email campaign. edit: The same question goes about html elements like
, or formatting text with attribute align and other "html attributes and elements used to substitute CSS functionality". Here are some reasons why table layouts are bad: Tables are semantically incorrect markup for layout. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tableless_web_design. The main reasons are as follows: Layout tables reduce accessibility for visually impaired users: Screenreaders, used by blind people, interpret the tags that exist in an HTML page and read out the contents to the user. Take a look at this table: Rows – the rows run horizontally from left to right. They’re not responsive. Some good points but I would say number 6 is the most important reason to use CSS over tables for layout and design – so much easier to maintain and manange by tweaking a line or 2 of code in CSS Why does HTML think “chucknorris” is a color? Using nested tables may seem like the easier route to take when designing a website, but they are not recommended for a number of reasons. Tables are not new to HTML but there are a few new tags available in HTML5. Twitter works pretty well from phones in web mode. This will produce the following result − Here, the borderis an attribute of
tag and it is used to put a border across all the cells. Because of this, we largely can’t use the same coding principles used in web design. (Longer to download, and more bytes of traffic for the host.) Columns – the columns run vertically from top to bottom. Back when web browsers hadn’t even heard of the web standards movement, designers relied on HTML tables to structure web pages. Everywhere I go I see don't use table layout, it's evil, even Google says that, so why one of the most visited websites, Google and Twitter, use it for their homepage? Cell padding specifies the space between the cell content and its borders. The table above has three columns. The following HTML code create a Table with one row and two column and inside the second column again create another table (nested table) with two rows. To set the padding, use the CSS padding property: Both sites have immense data loads and need every bit of speed they can get. It showed the text over the image. Using tables, as with using HTML Frames, to create a page layout is an old-school method of creating page layouts.That being said, if you know your target visitors are on tablets or larger screens then you could still use this method. So why are tables bad? The thing is that before CSS, it was so hard to style web pages that tables seemed to be good way to do it. It's easy for developers to use, it's consistent across nearly every web browser, and it allows you to easily add rows/columns with little to no effort. Dear visitor! Why Tables Are Bad (For Layout. And generally speaking, you html code is cleaner if you use divs. Because tables are not the right tool for layout, and the markup is more complex than with CSS layout … Tables really have gotten a bad reputation over the years. The longer your page takes to load, the more likely someone will go elsewhere. Using HTML Tables for Page Layout Do You Know HTML Tables? Some of the trouble with HTML and CSS lies with the fact that both languages are fairly simple, and often developers don't take them seriously, in terms of making sure the code is well-crafted, efficient, and semantically describes the purpose of the features on the page. The only reason I can think of is, that they want the page to look similar even if client doesn't support CSS, like with Lynx. Our table above has four rows. I used tables to position my image elements so when a user clicked on the image, a span tag would be created for the td element and added. It has more to do with the pages being resized depending on the viewers settings. Browser Support - These guys need to have their websites render perfectly on ALL web browsers (New, Old and Obscure). What is the best hosting service provider? Instead, check out our CSS Tutorials to start learning about modern web site layout. Tables are very useful for HTML as they arrange the data. Gary Eckstein has done an excellent job summing up most of the technical reasons for not using tables on your website, but I’d like to offer a slightly different perspective on why HTML tables are bad for SEO. This design pattern is now considered very bad. Get answers by asking now. This makes redesigns of existing sites and content extremely labor intensive (and expensive). But if you us the div, you place text and images preciously at location on the browser windows such that when you resize the structure remains same. 4 Responses to “6 Reasons To Avoid Using Tables In Website Layouts” design & branding nottingham July 11, 2008 at 9:33 am. Why do we (web developers) use tables??? Here is the table with the second row highlighted. Here are two reasons: 1. Hi there, I was wondering if it’s good practice to put tags inside table cells. How do you recognize the difference between good and bad structures? I don’t want to be mean but it really hurts my eyes every time I see it. First, they require a longer load time which will effect your overall page load . The problem with using tables: mixes presentational data in with your content. Why Nested Tables Are Bad. HTML Table - Add Cell Padding. I think some of the same arguments apply here. Page Load Time - Also their pages are optimized for Page load times. Some data needs to be organized as tables so are very important. This makes the file sizes of your pages unnecessarily large, as users must download this presentational data for each page they visit. Image Encyclopedia Coding Help (Flutter). Tables may require you to chop single, logical images into multiple ones. When you have lot of data that can be ordered in rows and columns (Excel style), the best way is still to use tables. Viewing 6 posts - 1 through 6 (of 6 total) The forum ‘Other’ is closed to new topics and replies. In the older post I’m saying A, B, and C are reasons why html tables shouldn’t be used for layouts. - CSS is better for SEO (Search Engine Optimization), - You can manage different outputs:screen, mobile, printer/... with different style sheet, - let's imagine you have a 50 pages website and that you are asked to change the layout...Trust me, by the time you change/modify your tables, you have the time to learn and apply CSS. the component is that it is not a stable theory to apply tables for layouts. Images, Tables, and Mysterious Gaps: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Images,_Tables,_a... i'm going to qualify the different responder's answer. Here are some reasons why table layouts are bad: Tables are semantically incorrect markup for layout. Top 10 Bad Web Design Examples 1. Tables Bad, CSS Good. It's more powerful, but it takes time to learn. Using HTML Tables for Page Layout Do You Know HTML Tables? HTML tables are great for data listings, catalogs, image galleries, products, or anything with a similar block-style layout. Join Yahoo Answers and get 100 points today. Find here everything you need to know to build the most user-friendly … If it takes a user too long to load the page they'll just go somewhere else. Tables break text copying on some browsers. This is a common pattern for making responsive tables. To show why I simply referred to an older post where I point out why I think html tables are bad for layout. In the worst cases, JavaScript is used to generate the entire web page content and style, which makes your pages inaccessible, and less performant (generating DOM elements is expensive). Still have questions? Web Design Articles | May 10, 2006. LIKE IE6. If … No matter who's using their websites and what OS/Browser their using, these websites need to work. Unfortunately, they were not made for that. So why are tables bad? There are still plenty of users without broadband, even a lot of mobile devices don't have very fast connections depending on where you are. In other cases, nascent features are not supporte… There is no web layout that you can create with a table that can not be duplicated with CSS. I once heard that HTML tables were bad design. You should not use table-based layout under any circumstances. It showed the text over the image. Include entertaining widgets to make sure the visitor never gets bored while browsing your pages. I was told tables are bad to position elements so I used divs, now I can't seem to do the same thing. If you do not need a border, then you can use border = "0". People don't search for Google on search engines, and people don't search for Twitter posts on generally either. If you haven’t looked at our Introduction to HTML Tables then head over there and then come back!. HTML tables were originally intended to be used for presenting tabular data, not for layout. We earn a referral fee for some of the services we recommend on this page. But if you do have tabular data, then a table element is perfectly acceptable." What was a color graphics program used in 80s? Using DIV make the web page resize automatically. Compared to Semantic HTML + CSS. Welcome to Bad HTML. How to make Twitter Bootstrap menu dropdown on hover rather than click. In the older post I’m saying A, B, and C are reasons why html tables shouldn’t be used for layouts. This makes the file sizes of your pages unnecessarily large, as users must download this presentational data for each page they visit. (Takes longer for the user to see anything on the page.) George Clooney: FIGHT: Jean Dujardin: Edward Snowden: FIGHT: NSA: Deep Purple : FIGHT: Led Zepellin: Type 2 keywords and click on the 'Fight !' I was told tables are bad to position elements so I used divs, now I can't seem to do the same thing. Tabular data is tricky to display on mobiles since the page will either be zoomed in to read text, meaning tables go off the side of the page and the user has to scroll backwards and forwards to read the table, or the page will be zoomed out, usually meaning that the table is too small to be able to read. To define a table in HTML you need to use the
tag. HTML tables still have their legitimate place when presenting tabular information within web pages, and are also sometimes still used as layout devices in situations for which CSS support is poor or problematical, like vertically centering an element. Tables are horrible for screen readers. Why do Google and Twitter use table layout? So why even go with that route if it requires additional work? The key is not to use tables for layout. The only downside is that it goes against the mantra that your document should only contain content, and your design should be contained separately (in a CSS file). Tables are for "tabular" data : Have a nice spreadsheet with your sales per month? HTML Tables - How and When to Use Them. What we don’t do anymore is using tables for layout. Tables consume less bandwidth. This allows content to be rendered meaningfully across a wide variety of devices. On a side note, there is a good reason not to always use tables for this purpose, but it has nothing to do with whether or not that usage is semantically correct and consistent with web standards (true and true). *. ) Tables break text copying on some browsers. Author. The site literally places the graphics, content, and links anywhere. The use of grids in design goes back way earlier than their use online. The Newsletter. Why are tables "bad"? You can format nested tables as you would format any other HTML Table. Along came CSS a designer's best friend. Can you do this HTML layout without using tables? Posted by Jessica Hough on 10/10/2011 . So why everyone say it is so bad, if the biggest websites on the internet use it. (Longer to download) Tables lock you into the current design and make redesigns MUCH harder than semantic HTML+CSS. You can sign in to give your opinion on the answer. Tables Are Not Accessible . Tables are usually more bytes of markup. I wanted to lay out my page with two columns of potentially different heights, and after I couldn't figure out a way to do this with CSS (so I'm kind of a n00b), I googled it and found some crazy workarounds, like "faux columns" where the background is done with vertically tiled images rather than simple CSS. Powered by YOODA INSIGHT. No matter who's using their websites and what OS/Browser their using, these websites need to work. In short, using tables for layout rather than CSS layout techniques is a bad idea. Why is Arngren a poorly designed website? Table layout gets more grief than it deserves. Tables are the Only Solution. Do you consider writing a program that takes 3 integer inputs and orders them in ascending order (accounting for same numbers) difficult? there isn't something incorrect with using an HTML "table" area of exhibit something that's nicely a table, like a table of numbers and records. It is not flexible and a lot of code when you want to apply css. Share this fight: Try also these fights. After you have designed you web page using tables, try to resize the browser windows and you will notice that contents in difference cell can be changed to two rows or more. What do you think of the answers? Why tables for layout is stupid: http://www.hotdesign.com/seybold/, Tableless Web Design: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tableless_web_design. How long does it take to learn the basics of HTML? Using tables, as with using HTML Frames, to create a page layout is an old-school method of creating page layouts.That being said, if you know your target visitors are on tablets or larger screens then you could still use this method. The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C®) discourages use of tables for layout because they are striving for a web in which content and structure are completely separate from presentation. Before taking a look how to use tables in HTML, there are a few terms which you need to understand about tables in general. html "using tables for layout is bad" vs html "using tables for layout is good" html "using tables for layout is bad" html "using tables for layout is good" Calculation method . Each web browser supports it's own implementation of CSS and this causes a similar issue to that of the JavaScript DOM support in various browsers. It is bad for the user experience, bad for SEO, and bad for developers who have to maintain pages. /td > tags of the outer container Table. With the gross misuse of them, it's not hard to see why. It saves time in the long run. Android Drawing Separator/Divider Line in Layout? Can we have multiple in same
? (6) Browser Support - These guys need to have their websites render perfectly on ALL web browsers (New, Old and Obscure). To define the cells in the table you need to use the
tag.Tables can contain column elements, row elements, headers, footers and other elements. Every time you publish a code like the list below a kitten dies. This makes redesigns of existing sites and content extremely labor intensive (and expensive). Tables are usually more bytes of markup. Use gradients and shadows to show that the site is using the latest CSS3 technology. Some web browsers are truly gruesome, so I assume Twitter does what it has to.

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